Well said. Not said is the complicity of the civilian population of Gaza. As I wrote just this evening to a morally obtuse alleged nun: mothers and fathers raise their sons to be terrorists and suicide bombers, their daughters as well, like US mom's and dads raise their sons to be football or baseball players, and their daughters to be mom's to their grandchildren or Taylor Swift or cheer leaders.
I will be interested to see what disparate responses the same comment gets in the 2 stacks.
Kelli, I just have to say I always look forward to your pieces. You write what I want to say, but can’t as I become tied up with emotion and I don’t have your gift for putting words together. It’s not just Jews either, I am not Jewish, but as a supporter of Israel I am also fearful of attacks and reprisals and have come to think all my colleagues are likely, in a sense, now my enemy. No one is speaking out or speaking up except by a few brave—brave—individuals on selective sites. It’s amazing we have to have courage to challenge the lies and now expect reprisals here in the western world.
I had family living in Eastern Germany and grew up knowing they could not speak truthfully. We understood letters and packages were opened. How quickly things have regressed.
Hamas and their delusional supporters are demonstrably incapable and unwilling to be rational or hear/learn the truth. This is antisemitism pure. Simple. Disgusting.
Thank you so much Heidi. I hear you. I have had do be relatively anonymous, just my first name only as someone contacted my workplace early on a told them they were employing a racist. It’s crazy and shocking. But we have to speak the truth 🤍
All of this, among other things, comes out a.o. as a result of the completely failed so-called „coming-to-terms-with-the-past“ - („Vergangenheits-Bewältigung“) - not only in Germany - towards the persecution and murder of 6 million Jews by the German Nazi regime.
This became presented as an allegedly "singular event" in world history, a "relapse" into "barbarism" - without any historical or political context. This is how it happened that "new exclusions“ of „particular groups“ were warned against in a general and non-binding superficial manner and that all Jew-haters could also claim that they "should not be hated" and „excluded“, refusing and/or unable to make any differentiations.
The very special, outstanding role that Jews in particular play and have played in the development of („Western“) civilization and human rights, and that they were and are rejected precisely because of their developed, comprehensive critical ability and rationality, their universally critical and „resistant“ thinking, is not communicated anywhere: maybe because it could raise questions about the quality of critical awareness in „the West“ in comparison to that in Jewish Culture…
And that also is the main if not only „reason“ why Jews are hated in the „Islam“ world: as the latter are collectivist anti-individualistic, and thinking oneself without regarding unduely what „the Clericals“ say, has „no tradition“ there.
Which makes it so unbelievably ridiculous that allegedly „revolutionary“ Leftist can be in any way „sympathetic“ towards the „Islam“: or rather, it shows what being a „Marxist“ really and only includes: BELIEVING in a Religion which to criticize is seen as a mere sin.
So, by that, it comes out that Jews get earnestly „advised" to adhere to human rights : which just would not exist that way without Jews.
And when „The West“ stood and stands against „the“ jews, murdered them and tried - and tries - to leave them alone instead of unmistakably standing in for them whatever it takes, „the West“ is fighting against and destroying itself (similar in the Ukraine where a hundred percent No Doubt support for the Ukraine against totalitarian Russia gets „questioned“).
The fact that, among other things and in particular, Jews were and are hated, persecuted, expelled and murdered all over the world and that "the Nazis" were unfortunately not an "exception" in this regard, is not taught anywhere.
For example, "Palestinians", who are themselves full of hatred and unable to differentiate, can so accuse "the" Jews of being "like the Nazis" and using "Nazi methods". The fact that the Jews' 100% justified ability to defend themselves has completely different reasons than, for example, the crimes of the Nazis, is not understood by most people, as these „more complicated" facts were never explained to them.
This is the only way how a.o. it could come about that the EU or the UN - full of „Leftists“ - , for example, could unhesitatingly support the decades-long increase in hatred of Jews in so-called "Palestine" (a COLONIST name for this country) e.g. through financing school books full of hatred towards Jews.
I would, however, object to the idea of ‘accountability’ and ‘consequences’; in theory that is correct, in practice the consequences for a trigger happy Israeli soldier are farcical.
Just look at what happened when the law tried to turn against soldiers who had assaulted a Palestinian prisoner several weeks ago, plus the well-documented torture Israel uses in the detention camps / holding facilities for Hamasniks / terrorists captured in the war.
This in turn gives all Israel-bashers and Jew-haters an enormous amount of ammunition to discredit the state even further; a de facto self-goal. Whilst I understand the emotions behind it completely, Israel must not allow itself to sink to these levels. It has to keep its humanity intact even when fighting a ‘inhumane’ enemy.
It is also correct that many imprisoned Arabs, terrorists or collaborators, enjoy a pretty privileged life with access to education, health care etc. Just look at Sinwar. So again, it is a case of this AND that if one wants to give the full picture.
I do also believe that even if Israel played by any and all rules in the book, the world would still find - “invent” - something wrong and use the state as its internal release valve / favorite punching bag…
You can get this information easily from within Israel. Opinions on this will vary, naturally. Sitting down with a friend who has been to Gaza multiple times over the last 11 months, uncomfortable stories abound. My point is - it’s not helping Israel in the propaganda war when not living up to its own claims of accountability.
Playing Hatikva 24/7 over loudspeakers, constant sleep deprivation, water boarding, physical assaults… and the list goes on.. In comparison milder than what Israeli hostages are going through, surely!, but it still is backfiring in the international PR war.
It’s been all over Israeli media. Breaking the Silence did a bigger report on it. Times of Israel did as well. IDF not interfering when settlers attack Palestinians in the West Bank for no other reason than to stir up trouble… all over Ynet, Walla etc.
All problematic incidents, even if one fundamentally has to acknowledge how difficult it is to keep one’s cool in the current situation. I tend to be careful with Haaretz generally because they are so left-leaning they tend to only ever see the negative things. TOI is generally quite middle of the road.
And of course, imprisoned and released Gazans will only ever say the worst of everything so you need to strip back from the accusations what’s real and what’s not by comparing notes. But most things can be very easily verified with people on the ground. It’s a small country after all.
I think generally the IDF gets more things right than wrong, but there are things that need discussing and addressing rather than whitewashing.
Let's differentiate between "well-documented" and "press reports".
Well-documented facts are reports from the Abu Kabir morgue, these are judicial and official materials on the recovery of hostages' bodies, these are witness statements to official services.
And what you wrote are press reports on assumptions and suspicions.
The press writes not only about facts, but also about assumptions and rumors. Even if someone spreads a lie, the press will write about it. The press writes about provocations and does not always write the truth. Therefore, it is impossible to call what you listed "well-documented facts".
I am not whitewashing anyone, but I am not going to believe everything that appears in the press until there is real confirmation. And most of the events you listed have no confirmation.
That is not correct. There is documentation. But if you prefer to not believe what the (Israeli Hebrew speaking) media writes because it doesn’t fit your narrative, then it’s kind of pointless isn’t it? That’s how echo chambers are created and reinforced. And it’s called cherry picking evidence.
By the way sitting down with soldiers who have been to Gaza and are on active army duty, is the best way to get things from the horse’s mouth. When was the last time you did that!?
I think we also need to remember the enemy that the IDF are dealing with. It seems that the IDF are held to the highest standards, but Hamas and Palestinians are not. The bigotry of low expectations. When continually facing existential threats from a group that doesn’t play by the rules, I can understand it would be very hard to maintain those standards.
Well said. Not said is the complicity of the civilian population of Gaza. As I wrote just this evening to a morally obtuse alleged nun: mothers and fathers raise their sons to be terrorists and suicide bombers, their daughters as well, like US mom's and dads raise their sons to be football or baseball players, and their daughters to be mom's to their grandchildren or Taylor Swift or cheer leaders.
I will be interested to see what disparate responses the same comment gets in the 2 stacks.
Yes this is correct. Did you notice I said Hamas and Palestinians?
Can you please link me your post? I would like to read it.
Caitlin’s Newsletter:
It's The Trump Party Vs The Cheney Party
here is my first post in that string, I hope that is sufficient to get you there:
Uh Selina, dear, Are Hamas Palestinians? Did Palestinians vote them into power? Have they continued to support them?
That would be 3 Yeses. The Palestinians are complicit, not innocent.
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Yes, I think it may have been my impetus to say what I said
Kelli, I just have to say I always look forward to your pieces. You write what I want to say, but can’t as I become tied up with emotion and I don’t have your gift for putting words together. It’s not just Jews either, I am not Jewish, but as a supporter of Israel I am also fearful of attacks and reprisals and have come to think all my colleagues are likely, in a sense, now my enemy. No one is speaking out or speaking up except by a few brave—brave—individuals on selective sites. It’s amazing we have to have courage to challenge the lies and now expect reprisals here in the western world.
I had family living in Eastern Germany and grew up knowing they could not speak truthfully. We understood letters and packages were opened. How quickly things have regressed.
Hamas and their delusional supporters are demonstrably incapable and unwilling to be rational or hear/learn the truth. This is antisemitism pure. Simple. Disgusting.
Thank you so much Heidi. I hear you. I have had do be relatively anonymous, just my first name only as someone contacted my workplace early on a told them they were employing a racist. It’s crazy and shocking. But we have to speak the truth 🤍
All of this, among other things, comes out a.o. as a result of the completely failed so-called „coming-to-terms-with-the-past“ - („Vergangenheits-Bewältigung“) - not only in Germany - towards the persecution and murder of 6 million Jews by the German Nazi regime.
This became presented as an allegedly "singular event" in world history, a "relapse" into "barbarism" - without any historical or political context. This is how it happened that "new exclusions“ of „particular groups“ were warned against in a general and non-binding superficial manner and that all Jew-haters could also claim that they "should not be hated" and „excluded“, refusing and/or unable to make any differentiations.
The very special, outstanding role that Jews in particular play and have played in the development of („Western“) civilization and human rights, and that they were and are rejected precisely because of their developed, comprehensive critical ability and rationality, their universally critical and „resistant“ thinking, is not communicated anywhere: maybe because it could raise questions about the quality of critical awareness in „the West“ in comparison to that in Jewish Culture…
And that also is the main if not only „reason“ why Jews are hated in the „Islam“ world: as the latter are collectivist anti-individualistic, and thinking oneself without regarding unduely what „the Clericals“ say, has „no tradition“ there.
Which makes it so unbelievably ridiculous that allegedly „revolutionary“ Leftist can be in any way „sympathetic“ towards the „Islam“: or rather, it shows what being a „Marxist“ really and only includes: BELIEVING in a Religion which to criticize is seen as a mere sin.
So, by that, it comes out that Jews get earnestly „advised" to adhere to human rights : which just would not exist that way without Jews.
And when „The West“ stood and stands against „the“ jews, murdered them and tried - and tries - to leave them alone instead of unmistakably standing in for them whatever it takes, „the West“ is fighting against and destroying itself (similar in the Ukraine where a hundred percent No Doubt support for the Ukraine against totalitarian Russia gets „questioned“).
The fact that, among other things and in particular, Jews were and are hated, persecuted, expelled and murdered all over the world and that "the Nazis" were unfortunately not an "exception" in this regard, is not taught anywhere.
For example, "Palestinians", who are themselves full of hatred and unable to differentiate, can so accuse "the" Jews of being "like the Nazis" and using "Nazi methods". The fact that the Jews' 100% justified ability to defend themselves has completely different reasons than, for example, the crimes of the Nazis, is not understood by most people, as these „more complicated" facts were never explained to them.
This is the only way how a.o. it could come about that the EU or the UN - full of „Leftists“ - , for example, could unhesitatingly support the decades-long increase in hatred of Jews in so-called "Palestine" (a COLONIST name for this country) e.g. through financing school books full of hatred towards Jews.
With you all the way doll
Nice summary Kelli.
I would, however, object to the idea of ‘accountability’ and ‘consequences’; in theory that is correct, in practice the consequences for a trigger happy Israeli soldier are farcical.
Just look at what happened when the law tried to turn against soldiers who had assaulted a Palestinian prisoner several weeks ago, plus the well-documented torture Israel uses in the detention camps / holding facilities for Hamasniks / terrorists captured in the war.
This in turn gives all Israel-bashers and Jew-haters an enormous amount of ammunition to discredit the state even further; a de facto self-goal. Whilst I understand the emotions behind it completely, Israel must not allow itself to sink to these levels. It has to keep its humanity intact even when fighting a ‘inhumane’ enemy.
It is also correct that many imprisoned Arabs, terrorists or collaborators, enjoy a pretty privileged life with access to education, health care etc. Just look at Sinwar. So again, it is a case of this AND that if one wants to give the full picture.
I do also believe that even if Israel played by any and all rules in the book, the world would still find - “invent” - something wrong and use the state as its internal release valve / favorite punching bag…
Thanks Pebbles. Some interesting points. I might look into them further as I no longer trust information from the news.
You can get this information easily from within Israel. Opinions on this will vary, naturally. Sitting down with a friend who has been to Gaza multiple times over the last 11 months, uncomfortable stories abound. My point is - it’s not helping Israel in the propaganda war when not living up to its own claims of accountability.
I didn't understand what you called "well-documented torture"?
Playing Hatikva 24/7 over loudspeakers, constant sleep deprivation, water boarding, physical assaults… and the list goes on.. In comparison milder than what Israeli hostages are going through, surely!, but it still is backfiring in the international PR war.
The terrorists themselves said this, they posted it on TikTok, they wrote it in Haaretz, +972?
It’s been all over Israeli media. Breaking the Silence did a bigger report on it. Times of Israel did as well. IDF not interfering when settlers attack Palestinians in the West Bank for no other reason than to stir up trouble… all over Ynet, Walla etc.
All problematic incidents, even if one fundamentally has to acknowledge how difficult it is to keep one’s cool in the current situation. I tend to be careful with Haaretz generally because they are so left-leaning they tend to only ever see the negative things. TOI is generally quite middle of the road.
And of course, imprisoned and released Gazans will only ever say the worst of everything so you need to strip back from the accusations what’s real and what’s not by comparing notes. But most things can be very easily verified with people on the ground. It’s a small country after all.
I think generally the IDF gets more things right than wrong, but there are things that need discussing and addressing rather than whitewashing.
Let's differentiate between "well-documented" and "press reports".
Well-documented facts are reports from the Abu Kabir morgue, these are judicial and official materials on the recovery of hostages' bodies, these are witness statements to official services.
And what you wrote are press reports on assumptions and suspicions.
The press writes not only about facts, but also about assumptions and rumors. Even if someone spreads a lie, the press will write about it. The press writes about provocations and does not always write the truth. Therefore, it is impossible to call what you listed "well-documented facts".
I am not whitewashing anyone, but I am not going to believe everything that appears in the press until there is real confirmation. And most of the events you listed have no confirmation.
Just like Santa Clause is well-documented too.
There are even films about him.
No one has seen him but obviously he's real.
That is not correct. There is documentation. But if you prefer to not believe what the (Israeli Hebrew speaking) media writes because it doesn’t fit your narrative, then it’s kind of pointless isn’t it? That’s how echo chambers are created and reinforced. And it’s called cherry picking evidence.
By the way sitting down with soldiers who have been to Gaza and are on active army duty, is the best way to get things from the horse’s mouth. When was the last time you did that!?
I think we also need to remember the enemy that the IDF are dealing with. It seems that the IDF are held to the highest standards, but Hamas and Palestinians are not. The bigotry of low expectations. When continually facing existential threats from a group that doesn’t play by the rules, I can understand it would be very hard to maintain those standards.
So well said! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Thank you Michelle 🙏🏻🤍